12/12/2006

Naysayers Have Bon Fire: Tonight

33 comments:

candyass said...

Dean Knudson on his backseat driving uncommoninsight.com site blames "bannergate" as being dumb and causing the yes side some votes. Hmmmmm. He doesn't seem to remember Pearsons illegall parked (farm plates-taking up 2 city parking spots with wheel chocks to keep it from rolling away) illegally signed (way bigger than 4x8') turnip truck of the past.
Seems Ol' Dean wants some people to follow the rules but others like the illegal blue vote no signs and the plywood and paint beauties that give no mention of who paid for them. I would comment to Dean on his site but have heard that he, like the ontheborderline.net group do not allow anyone but their bobo's to comment. I guess Dean Knudson can't the opinion of others.

tiger said...

I read Knudson's post on the legalities on the banner being post. I'm sure if I agree with his interpretation of the "political." From the perspective of the statutes he cited, "politcal" may refer to political parties. School board elections and referendums have traditionally be non-partisan. Unless, of course, anything that is resolved via an election is by nature political.

Xcel Engerny said...

You guys can laugh all you want. But we saved $78 off our heating bill last night at the bon fire.

trojan-horse said...

You guys really are dumber than stumps. The reason those "Vote No" signs were painted on discarded plywood was so they could be used as kindling to help Rome burn. And burn it will. The plan is coming together nicely.

The Common Man said...

As for Dean Knudson's Uncommon Bullshit:

1. Knudson says that a 51%-49% winning margin shows that the town is polarized and divided. That’s Bullshit. A winning margin of 51% is par for the course for a school referendum. It’s the nature of the beast. There will always be close to 50% of the voters showing up to vote No. The key is to convince 51% to show up to vote to raise their taxes. That was done here. The last referendum had 28% Yes votes (and Knudson would say that was evidence of a polarized/divided community). We went from 28% to 51%. That’s real movement in the right direction.

2. Knudson says that the banner issue caused people to vote No. That’s Bullshit. Only about .0001% of the voting public even knew it happened. Knudson likes to say it had an impact because it was the only issue he got involved in. He spent hours researching, writing and calling about this piece of paper hung over the street. What a waste of time. Knudson and his banner had Zero impact on this referendum.

3. Knudson says that if the No group had worked as hard and spent as much money as the Yes group it would have been a landslide defeat. That’s Bullshit. For every No voter hauled out of the nursing home by Weese, the Friends would find 1.01 Yes voters. This referendum was going to pass no matter what the No group did.

4. Knudson says that the new elementary school is a financial loser for the City because of annexation. Well, annexation is not a done deal yet, but I won’t look for Knudson to leave his hobbit-hole to come out and speak against it to the City Council. After November 7 and December 12, Knudson is a two-time loser facing a pendulum swinging against him.

CANRAC said...

I'll disagree with you on one thing. I thought Knudson gave a very good description of the banner deal, his communication with the attorney, and some facts regarding ordinance and statute. Something you don't find on OTBL. Dean will not allow personal attacks or name-calling on his site, thats why there aren't many posts. If he personally has the time to work on this stuff, thats his decision. And I doubt you'll see him at the council meeting, he seems content after his decision to not run again. And one thing I liked about Dean, he also said what was on his mind and wasn't intimidated by Mayor Jack, his words were thought out. He was hardly a puppet while on the council.

Now, the banner being the difference, you are correct in that it is 100% bullshit. I was actually thinking the whole affair might cast a bad light on the "yes" group and lose votes.

boris said...

Dean is all about image. He takes snipish shots from the fence and points out wrongdoing by one side but ignores the actions of the other side that most times worse. That is why he lacks credibility. Note that he has not written support letters for any of the candidates in past years. He is smart enough to know that he can't come out and support Weese because weese is just to extreme. It would cost Dean politically. I agree with a neighbor who said the referendum was a big victory for the school board. Was it close? Yes but it passed with 51% yes. last referendum had only 28% yes. That is quite a jump in todays difficult times when many referendums fail. The banner was a total waste of his time. It meant nothing. My question for Dean is just what he thinks about all the illegal weese vote no signs. It seems that Knudson is trying to massage the anger from the otbl'ers who are now attacking the mayor as part of the conspiracy.
I don't see Jack as King. He has been pretty good at managing the egos of this little hamlet.
Dean is one of those egos.

CANRAC said...

Jack is an arrogant ass. Disagree with him and he never forgets it. I once heard Jack tell a citizen he was "King of Hudson", that was enough for me. Jack is good as massaging, especially those asking for things from the city. And Jack's line of bullshit can be pretty good too. And why hasn't Jack or somebody stood up for a few of the employees targeted by OTBL.

Jack would have been smart to avoid this one, he's got some big projects coming up on the burner. And my question, why suddenly the need for millions in projects and improvements when we've heard all this low mil-rate the past years.

Bottom line is referendum passed, time to move on and do what voters approved. I doubt you'll see a mass exodus from the area because this past. Then again if a few did move it would make for a better community.

Anonymous said...

Nobody's going anywhere, the taxes are going up 6$ a month? Wait till the high school passes then people may leave, wait hopefully people will leave.

CANRAC said...

Ah, you'll hear all these claims about whats wrong, how expensive, etc. etc., but nobody will leave unless they or their spouse get a much better job. I do feel for retired fixed income people, they need breaks but its needed at the state and fed level, local governments cannot address this.

I remember when Carter got elected president I muttered to my daughter that I was moving to Canada, she went to school and announced that we were moving the next day. And yup, I survived Carter and am still here.

elephant dropping watcher said...

The jury is still out if we can survive Bush. Yuck!!!!!!!!
Worst President EVER!!!

CANRAC said...

I survived Sweet Willie, surviving Hillary might be a tougher challenge!

elephant dropping watcher said...

Canrac,

Willie was good for us, like him or not. How hard was it to survive 8 years of consecutive economic growth?
Whether he was responsible or not?
I don't think you'll have a chance to see if you could survive Hillary.

Nobody has been a tougher challenge than the current incomprocrat!

david copperfield said...

Funny, I drove past the former location of this piece of political artwork and there weren't even any smoldering ashes left. It's like a magic vanishing act. PooFF!

Anonymous said...

http://www.ontheborderline.net/files/HudsonStarObserver2.htm

Can anybody else see a lawsuit coming from Meg Heaton and the HSO over this? I would sue their a$$ and shut em down!

CANRAC said...

Regarding Clinton, Bush, fed politicians, etc. there are up and down sides. I'm not longer a dem or rep, I just vote for who I think is the best person. And I don't blog for deep political arguments, I'd rather do that over a beer.

And regarding the HSO reporter, I think what was said got very personal and was a sad deal. I hope indeed if she has any grounds, that she does sue their a$$'s off. I really think that blog will be a thing of the past soon just because people get tired of the same old song, unfounded allegations, and same old bullshit.

And yes, I've discussed why I voted no, but on the other hand I'm ready to see the new grade school built. It's over, lets move on.

boris said...

Canrac,
I know one thing for sure about Jack. He refuses to let Weese run the show at council meetings like weese has been allowed to bait and disrupt the school board meetings.
The otbl'ers going after Jack and the other council members is just another step. First it was the school board, then the school administration, then the liason officer,then the teachers, then their spouses, then teachers children or parents, then local business owners that support public education, then the hudson police, Then the Hudson star observer, then the mayor and council.
What is next, the firemen and the street sweepers? Don't you think people should stand up and push back?

Mikhail Ivanovich said...

boris,

"Don't you think people should stand up and push back?"

Don't you think that's what we've been doing here for the last 2 years. You should familiarize yourself with our mission statement (good luck trying to find it written down anywhere ) which basically states that ATBL's reason for existence is to satirize and mock the borderliners to expose them for the fools that they are.
Have we missed the mark?

Count the number of political successes that OTBL has had on one hand. I count a big fat ZERO.
Do they have a member of their clan on the Hudson school board?
They've tried 3 times.
The sympathizers on the New Richmond school board....GONE.
Jack Bauer....History.
Dr. Bill and the Dr.s of Liberty,
out of hot air.
People are sick of their attacks, especially on people who are trying to do what's right for the community.
They are the laughing stock of Hudson, a role they've earned for themselves mostly for the reason's you've listed.
Join in the fun.

From The Bleachers said...

If you think winning by a 65 vote swing margin after an all out push is something to claim a complete dominate victory over - then why don't you come out and ask again real soon for a high school. You had no organized opposition last time, so why not go for it?

CANRAC said...

"Don't you think people should stand up and push back"??

Yes, I agree that has been happening, however some of the BS has been going on too long.

The council let Weese and Marian speak on how they were violated being ejected from the SB meeting, police chief met with them, and two council members while it was not published made their feelings known to employees that this was wrong. The two "victims" had the chance to have their say. What the council should have done is said "we've checked into this, our pd was responding from a complaint from an SB member and they acted on the complaint, we feel the pd did what they felt was necessary given the situation, your issue is something for the SB". This was no different that a law enforcement person responding to a trespassing complaint. They remove the party. If it wasn't trespassing the person isn't charged. The PD was in a no-win situation here, they enforce laws, not first amendment rights. That's the jobs of attorneys and the courts. And of course the longer the city didn't respond, the accusiations of physical threats, manhandling, etc. grew and grew.

Regarding the threat letter the city should simply say how the matter is being handled, and where it sits. If it was sent to the state crime lab and is still under investigation, or if the findings were inconclusive, it needs to be made public. Continuing to let public employees take cheap shots and be victims of unfounded statements is wrong. The council needed to step in long ago and clear employees of wrongdoing if they have indeed done nothing wrong. I felt that rather then addressing the charges, Chief Trende was left hanging. If the council knows whats going on, they need to address it.

I think the city reacted with a little fear to the "naysayer" bunch, rather then just standing up, addressing it, and ending it. And if there was wrongdoing by employees, and it eventually comes out, it will be a bigger problem.

I think the citizens have done a good job of standing up, I think the city can do a better job.

cub said...

From the Bleachers:

What you need to consider on a high school referendum is that they start with 3300 votes. Because the folks that want a new elementary understand the need for a new high school. Out of your 3100+ votes you will lose some of those because there were many that wanted a new HS before an elementary, don't be so sure it won't pass because the next referendum is going to raise your taxes significantly, not a latte or two a month!

What I would focus on if I were you OTBL folks is the state funding stream for public schools, not local school boards. The state has to take some of the pressure off of property taxes because Public Schools aren't going away, you have tried but have not succeeded. Bill Danielson can talk all he wants about "economic choice" but the bottom line we are a country that has a foundation built on public education.

I for one thank the school board, the superintendent and most importantly the teachers of The School District of Hudson. They don't get the support from this community that they deserve!

Anonymous said...

At $11,000 a head, I think we've more than showed our "Thanks".

Anonymous said...

Thanks is different than SUPPORT

Golfbag O' Wind said...

OK Wise ass Anon:

Of that $11,000 per student, how much have YOU paid personally, only a fraction I absolutely sure!
Then tell everyone how many children you've had go through the public school system receiving the benefit of that support.
You're ahead of the game and you know it you tightwad.

Anonymous said...

For your information bag o' wind, I sent my kids to private school, so yes, I've probably paid far far more than a tight wad like you ever will.

Golfbag O' Wind said...

anon, said

"I sent my kids to private school, so yes, I've probably paid far far more than a tight wad like you ever will."

FYI I sent my kids to a religious grade school. The difference between us is you whine like a baby about having to pay and I don't!

And it's Mr. bag o' wind to you.

Anonymous said...

bag 'o wind - you Mr. (it's more likely Mrs.) are full of shit!

Golfbag O' Wind said...

Hey Mr. Anonymous,

Have a good day :-)

Dr. Phil said...

Hey anon, some advice: VOTE NO!

Oh, I guess you tried that and it didn't work.

I'm out of advice. Maybe you should check with Dr. Kevorkian. He could put you out of our misery.

CANRAC said...

Anon

"We voted no and lost" support group meeting tonight, 7pm, at Luke's. Only change is the promised referendume burn, er I mean bonfire was cancelled.

cub said...

Any guesses as to who Anon is? It's multiple choice:

A. Curt Weese
B. Bill Danielson
C. Marion Shaw
D. Chris Kilber

It's too short to be BD, he would have typed a thesis before the "full of shit" line.

Although it sounds like something Weese would say, he is a bit more creative so he would have come up with a name instead of Anon.

Kilber would have spoke in Russian so that leaves the only nutjob...SHAW!

golfbagowind said...

Mr. Anonymous,

"14/12/06 16:25
Anonymous said...

bag 'o wind - you Mr. (it's more likely Mrs.) are full of shit!"


Just curious which thing I said was full of shit?"

Was it sending offspring to private religious grade school or not complaining about having to pay for it?
Curious minds want to know?

I for one appreciate you inciteful contribution to this dialog.

R.A.F.T. relief said...

Lets see... Shaw sent his kids to St Pats, then Helen found religion and started a nasty power struggle.
Weese sent his kids to Trinity and there were some problems there as well. A lot more to those stories.
But an excellent point was made. You will not hear any of these idiots who claim 11,000 per child admitting how much they actually paid in. It undermines there own bloated sense of importance and credibility.

From the bleachers, your words are just sad. To quote sean connery "losers sit around whining about why they lost, winners go home and F the prom queen."
Your 65 swing vote theeory is lame. Go to Knudson's uncommoninsight.com.
Even Dean can see it. last referendum had 28% vote yes, this one had 51% vote yes. Last referendum had a little over 2000 yes votes. This one had 3,300. I like the trend. Careful, if you claim that the higher vote total is caused by population growth you would have to admit that the community is really growing. There goes another one of your planks. Also, to say that there was no organized opposition to the latest referendum is a joke. Weese illegally recycled vote no signs from his p.a.c. he wrote and ghost wrote 6 straight letters to the editor, dropped his emails to every conservative he knows, and found some new idiots to to drink his kool-aid, or pabst if you will. Weese did everything the same as he does against every vote except this time he didn't spend any money. Big deal, his illegal plywood signs were out in big numbers. It took an act of opposition to make and distribute all those big signs.
How many posts were on otbl challenging the board to have the guts to bring a referendum? How many? They brought it. They might not have taken the borderwhiners to the woodshed, but it is still a victory, the school will be built and our community wins. Thanks again.