Peace On Earth- Good Will Toward Men

Merry Christmas
to all on both sides of
the borderline.


Today In Labor History: December 25

1910: A dynamite bomb destroyed a portion of the Llewellyn Ironworks in Los Angeles, where a bitter strike was in progress.

Today In Labor History: December 24

“Take a trip with me in nineteen thirteen
To Calumet, Michigan, in the copper country.
I'll take you to a place called Italian Hall
Where the miners are having their big Christmas ball.”

So begins the song “1913 Massacre,” written by Woody Guthrie in 1941 after reading about the Italian Hall tragedy that occurred in Calumet on Christmas Eve, 1913, where 74 people died in a stairway after an unidentified person shouted a false cry of fire. The panic was caused by company stooge at Calumet, Mich. The stooge shouted “fire” up the stairs into a crowded hall where strikers’ children had gathered. The children were crushed against closed doors when they tried to flee.

Read more: The Italial Hall Disaster and Copper Strike 1913-14

Merry Christmas to Our Friends at the OTBL Blog Site

President Bush Releases Transcripts of Daughter's Phone Conversations

Fruit Don't Stumble Too Far From The Tree...

President Bush has come under fire of late for the disclosure that, in the days after September 11 (and even still), the government has been secretly wiretapping certain Americans' conversations. The legality of this has been called into question, but the President claims that the stealth program "enables us to move faster, and quicker, and that's important."

The Black Table has acquired transcripts of several secret conversations that President Bush had himself -- personally -- tapped into, and, having reviewed them, it's impossible to deny that he's right. A few snippets:

September 23, 2002.
9:07 p.m.
Austin, Tex.

(phone rings; transmission begins)
Unidentified Male, a.k.a. "Jimmy": Hello?

Jenna Bush, First Daughter: (hiccupping) Hi, Jimmy. What's taking you so long?

"Jimmy": Jenna, honestly. Your father is the president. There's absolutely no reason you can't get your own alcohol. You'll be 21 in two months. And you sound bombed already.

Jenna Bush: Oh, come on, you know the tightass Secret Service guy won't let me out of his sight. Do you know how hard it was to sneak out to go to the Pi Kapps party last night? By the way, do you remember what ended up happening? Everything after 9 is pretty much a blur.

"Jimmy": (long pause) No. I, uh, have no idea. I think I, um, left early. Yeah. Um … you don't either, do you?

Jenna Bush: No! Isn't that crazy? It's all a blur; I think I blacked out again.
"Jimmy": Good. I mean, oh, yeah, crazy.

Jenna Bush: So, are you coming over?

"Jimmy": Listen, just sit tight. I'll be over there in 20 minutes; I'm trying to get my roommate off the ceiling. I think someone taped him up there last night.

Jenna Bush: Fine! Hurry, though. I think my secret service guy is drunk again. I can't believe they have a young guy do this job. He's cute, though. (giggling)

"Jimmy": You got it. I'll bring the mayonnaise.

Jenna Bush: Oh, and Jimmy?
"Jimmy": Yes?

Jenna Bush: Hook 'em, Horns!

"Jimmy": Hook 'em!
(transmission ends)

President Bush: Hook 'em!

Read more@ Blacktable.com

(Note from JPN: Personally, I respect President Bush's daughters for being human beings. My Dad used to say something like "as you get older, don't forget what it was like to be young.")

The President's Council On Physical Fitness Recommends A Good Stretch

RINO Alert: Republican Sensenbrenner uses the "Compromise" Word

How long before ontheborderline.net comes out in favor of Russ Feingold?

Back in 2001, Wisconsin's Russ Feingold was the only senator voting against the USA Patriot Act. Since the Senate pushed that act through so fast, Feingold was probably the only senator who took time to actually read it. Following right on the heels of 9/11, voting against any legislation containing the word "patriot" would brand you as a traitor.

Yesterday, the Senate voted to have a temporary, 5-week extension of the act. While reading a couple of stories on the Senate debate, I ran across some interesting quotes by Wisconsin Congress Jim Sensenbrenner's current disgust with Feingold's fight against the Act. Below are the quotes:

“I think that Senator Feingold’s role has been completely irresponsible.…Senator Feingold is unwilling to compromise. The (House-Senate deal) represents a compromise between the House and Senate and the Justice Department. That compromise is a responsible way of dealing with the issues that were presented….Americans are at much greater risks as a result of the Senate refusing to shut down an obstructionistic filibuster by people who will never be satisfied by any additional powers given to law enforcement….If the Patriot Act is allowed to expire, the wall will go up that prevents the FBI and CIA to exchange intelligence information on January 1.”

Congress Jim Sensenbrenner
Republican - Wisconsin

Since our blog neighbors at ontheborderline.net are so diligent about outing Republicans as RINO's (Republicans In Name Only) when they do something the OTBL'ers disagree with, -- remember: it's their way our the highway -- I am waiting for them to attack Sensenbrenner and start supporting Feingold. Why?

Sensenbrenner used the word "compromise" and this means there is room for gray area in a political debate. In OTBL'ers worldview, there is no such thing as compromise. They have called local Republicans Shelia Harsdorf and Kitty Rhoades RINO's for working with Democrats in Madison. Other Republicans who voted with Feingold include Larry Criag of Idaho and Alaska's Lise Murkowski.

If you are unfamilar with the stand the OTBL'ers take on compromising, here's a quote by their administrator titled: There Is No Middle Ground:

"Go along to get along. Find the common ground. The world is not black and white, it is gray. Compromise. Be moderate. We have heard all these phrases before. Well I think a moderate is nothing more than someone who does not understand or is too afraid to stand up for what they believe in. So how do we find middle ground? We can't."

Commenting on the same post, OTBL'ers ChoosingLife wrote:

"Straddling the fence of fiscal responsibility, moral and social responsibility surely brings out the gray area in many RINOs and other political parties. Beware those who compromise—for any reason! There is no middle ground in either social or fiscal responsibility."

Senator Feingold certainly can't be accused of compromising. However, he is in one of the "other political parties" and the OTBL'ers will have to decline the offer to give Feingold their blessing.

It was just a thought...

Q: How Many Wing Nuts Does It Take To Make A Fruit Cake?


Mega Chruches Closed On Christmas:

Family Values At Stake

"The megachurches are being accused of having caved into secularism," "Both those who are critical of the decision to cancel Christmas services and the big churches that are doing it would both say they're standing up for family values with a capital F and a capital V."

John Brolley
Director of undergraduate Studies
University of Cincinnati's Judiac Studies


Christmas on a Sunday might seem the perfect confluence - the celebration of Jesus' birth on the day of the week many Christians believe they belong in church. But when this year's calendar put Dec. 25 on a Sunday, it prompted large “mega” churches like to cancel Christmas Day services. Church leaders say it takes so many people to put on one of their celebrations that it's better to let those volunteers be with their families for the day.

Many of these “mega” churches draw 5,000 people on a given Sunday. The cancellations shocked more traditional Christians, who can't fathom being anywhere else but in a pew Christmas Day.

Read more on Christmas and the megachurches


Hypocrisy Stirkes Deep...

...In The "Heart" Of OTBL
A reader of this blog alerted me to my name being mentioned on Craig Westover's blog. Readers of the St. Paul Pioneer Press will recognize Westover as a columnist on the editorial page. I read his column and occasionally check out his blog. I don't believe I've every left any comments on his site. If I did, it was way back in the summer.

Below is an interesting piece of the conversation that takes place in the post on Westover's site on 12/20/05. It involves a person identified as Chris Kilber. Anything in (parenthesis) are my auxiliary comments:

...Craig. I've enjoyed this conversation immensely, but why would you let someone use another person's name as his? This person is known as "dratsum" or James P. Nelson. Why is he afraid of using his own name? I would think you would want to remove the name he has used for legal reasons (Evidently Westover is being threatened with potential legal action for allowing someone to post on his blog with an anonymous name. My Greater St. Croix County phonebook shows two Williams and a Bill Danielson. A rather common name.). Ketchup Man ("ketchup man" is sort of like my old OTBL post name" dratsum," i.e., "mustard" backwards) 12.20.05 - 6:24

Chris Kilber,
I didn't know anybody had the name Anti Bill Danielson...if that is truly his real name I will immediately stop using it...Stick to the topic...Craig does a nice job sticking to the disagreements without getting into name calling as you do over at OTBL.The Anti Bill Danielson (The Anti Bill has identified ketchup man as Chris Kilber the OTBL blog admin.) 12.20.05 - 8:00 am #

If you're not into name calling Mr. Nelson, then why use someone else's name in a derogatory fashion?Anti James P. Nelson (Being the Anti JPN might not be such a bad position to be in, since my wife occasionally uses my name, hell and the devil in the same sentence -- the eternal options might be better.) 12.20.05 - 10:09 am #

I know who I am targeting...JPN I am not...I could be another school board member's daughter/son or not...Chris it seems your panties are in bunch over this doesn't it!The Anti Bill Danielson (TABD lets me off the hook and points out Chris underwear preference. Other than standing by Chris at WITC and anonymously eating a cookie, I have no way of knowing if he wears boxer shorts, briefs or panties. That would be TMI.) 12.20.05 - 10:19 am #

Okay, guys. Kill it.Frankly I'm confused as to who is who, but I don't care. The "Anti" thing is a little silly to me, but whatever floats your boat.On this site we stay out of people's personal motives. This thread ends here. Stick to the topic.craig westover (aka Captain Fishsticks pulls the plug on the debate, before we learn CK's style of underwear.) 12.20.05 - 2:35 pm #
It's interesting to see the alleged Chris Kilber, the administrator of the ontheborderline.net blog in Hudson, step in and give The Anti Bill Danielson a verbal spanking for using "someone else's name in a derogatory fashion." In this alleged display of OTBL hypocrisy, Chris signs his post Anti James P. Nelson...in a derogatory fashion. It's a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I will claim the dratsum, mustard, JPN and James P. Nelson tags, but I can't claim authorship of the Anti Bill Danielson statements. That's someone else. Who? I don't know...but he/she is doing an excellent job of arguing his point with Westover aka Captain Fishsticks.

On a side note, it is interesting that the alleged CK had to jump in an stop an intelligent discussion between two consenting adults. Obviously, The Anti Bill Danielson was making some valid points the alleged CK didn't want the viewing public to see. The same tactic is used ontheborderline.net. I need to qualify that last statement. It's used whenever there is debate over there which is infrequent

Remember that this is allegedly the same Chris Kilber who did a posting on the OTBL blog titled: 10 Reasons For Anonymity OnThe BorderLine. His post included 10 points and additional information from The Real Dr. Bill Danielson. He started and ended his post as follows:

"So I need to cover anonimity on the blog. Why? Here are the main reasons for using an alias...(10 points go here)...To be criticized for allowing or using the anonymity of using aliases is totally unfounded. I totally recommend it."

The Bill Danielson piece linked to this post had this to say about personal attacks:

"Ad Hominem Abusive, aka a personal attack, is a technique of argument that is weak and should be resorted to only in certain cases. In general, the use of a personal attack to build ones argument fails the credibility test. It is also generally understood to be poor form and, more importantly, an indicator that the person making the ad hominem abusive doesn't really have a defendable (logical) argument. "

So according to the alleged Chris Kilber's mentor of neo-con selfishness, The Real Bill Danielson, the personal attacks verify my comment about points being made that the alleged CK couldn't refute. Hence, alleged CK's interuption in the discussion were, according to TRBD, in "poor form and, more importantly, an indicator that the person making the ad hominem abusive doesn't really have a defendable (logical) argument. "

There's a feature story in this week's New Richmond News about blogging in the St. Croix Valley. In it Bob Ziller, a local politcal observer and alleged author of the soon to be published boat anchor "My Letter's To The Editors: Volumes 1-666", has some very interesting comments about how he feels about anonymous posting at ontheborderline.net.

Check it out!

Q2: How Many Wing Nuts Does It Take To Make A 12-Pack?


Q1: How Many Wing Nuts Does It Take To Make A Case?

It's Membership Drive Time @ On The Border Line

Definately Checkout Their Blog Site And Take Their Lewd And Vulgar Tasteless Test

Here @ abovetheborderline.blogspot.com we consider ourselves to be humble upstarts in the ever-expanding world of internet blog sites. Unlike our mighty competitor in the St. Croix Valley -- ontheborderline.net -- when don't have the readership or fanancial wherewithal to compare ourselves to the Washington Post or the New York Times.Here, we are more like the underground newspapers that used to flurious in high schools and colleges in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Our dreams aren't about media stardom. We don't gloat over our monthly "hits" like an ERON vice president over an invitation of a World COM CEO's Roman orgy for his wife. You are more likely to find us at the farmers' market than potificating on the limitless bank book opportunities to be raped -- I mean "reaped" -- through the expanding global economy.

Our heroes are folks like Jesus, Mothers Jones and Therea, Ghandhi, Paul Wellstone, Fighting Bob LaFollette, the Crusher, Woody Guthrie, and a lot of people whose banks accounts didn't add up to a million bucks. I suppose, excluding westlers like Wellstone and the Crusher, we are a bunch of Davids lost in the daunting shadow of the mighty OTBL Goliath.

With this in mind, we urge you to remember that this is just a ratty pup tent of a blog site. We know you will go over and visit the www.ontheborderline.net Taj Mahal. There you can hangout with a handful of white males who like to call themselves "intellectuals" and post with numerous different names. Once you get over there, put in your ear plugs -- the noise from the back slapping in deafening. If you don't believe me, just ask them -- they're self-proclaimed "doctors."

Go over the border line and try it out at www.ontheborderline.net. As a previous OTBL'er, I want to coach you so you know what to expect when you go over to the other side -- the dark side. Chris Kilber is the administrator over there. He writes an occassional letter to the editor and signs petitions calling for the elimination of public education.

Whenever I write a letter to the editor telling about what these OTBL'ers are up to, Chris the Admin responds with a post on his blog calling me an ultra-lefty or collectivist. If you've made it this far, you can read what's posted on this blog and decide for yourself. Chris also likes to welcome his readers with this type of "mission statement" hype:

"Welcome HSO Readers once again. Thanks to J. Nelson (aka dratsum) for mentioning www.OnTheborderLine.net again in his HSO editorial...His facts about this blog are somewhat skewed on many levels. He also is outright wrong on others. He was originally banned from this blog because of his vulgarity and lewd commenting. He had been a welcome contributor up to that point. He did help attract many visitors and I guess, continues to do so today, be it in a round about way....In closing, you will also get an education on Free Markets, Economics, Education, and a host of other issue affecting us all, in addition to humor, sports on occasion, and a plethora of other topics. Have a look around and make up your own mind. If you want to comment feel free to register. You will be sent a password. Here is the disclaimer if you become a memeber:

Keep in mind that any new commenters are put in a moderated status and will be reviewed. If after a brief history everything seems to be in order, you may be then put into an un-moderated status by the admin. However, any comments, posts, or other contributed material becomes property of the blog and any submission or comment may be edited or deleted without question. Profanity will not be tolerated. The owner of this blog also is not responsible for objectionable material and will remove it when found, and suspend the member."

We use to provide links to the ontheborderline.net blog site. However, Chris the Admin is so embrassed about what is written over there that he directs any hits originating from this blog site to some Russian site that has one of his usual "everybody who doesn't agree with us is a commie" sayings. Your computer gets locked up and you have to reboot or do ctrl+alt+delete to get unfrozen.

You won't be able to post or make comments on that site, unless you send him you e-mail address. It is all "confidential," until some debater gets to far off their philosophical line of discussion. Then the debater may be outed on the site. An example of this was hsgrad351.

But hey, if you got time to waste and you don't mind the OTBL junkyard dogs gang piling on you in the comments section of the post, have at it. Unlike that site, on this site you are free to comment on any post here. You can comment anonymously, make up a name or shoot me an e-mail at abovetheborderline@yahoo.com and tell me you'd like to join. It's pretty simple. You can also start your own blog at www.blogspot.com. If you do and want me to add your blog to the links on the right, send me an e-mail.

Even Chris the OTBL admin has been sent an invitation to join the discussion on this blog site. We are all for discussion and he is free to join and say what he will and we will let the cookies crumble -- as long as they're not "lewd and vulgar."

How Many Wing Nuts Does It Take To Make A Six Pack?

New Member Gifts for Joining the OTBL Blog Site


Mikhail Claus is coming to town

Hello Comrades,
Spezial hello comrade adminKilbe and Merry Chri$tma$. You are, how they say in Amerika, compuooter genius no. Da, you are so intellekigent with Capitalist Code on Internet.
Your trick with making links from here go to Russia..... HEEeeee HOOOOOOO I'm laughing my Duppa off.
And Dec. 17 ..... Good day for trick with internet so no one trace back to you. You are sooo very intellekigent.
I love how you fool Amerikan's with having blog in Russia. Dr.s of Liberty and 1776 talk is more fun than gallon of Wodka.
So Comrade, why do you outsource Ontheborderline from
Mother Russia and move to server in land of imperialist?
You are so lucky to get ontheborderline domain name til 2008, same time your Dubya President will be gone. But people were asking questions. They say Mikhail, why borderline in Mother Russia in first place? Don't worry your secret safe with me comrade.

School Board Challengers Get OTBL Endorsement

OTBL endorsed candidates are out campaigning early. Elated by the fact
that two incumbent Hudson School Board members have decided not to endure the inevitable lies and slander of the OTBL blog troopers, or “public pressure” in OTBL parlance, the OTBL ticket has decided to skip Christmas and get on to what really matters, spreading lies and slander. "There are still skeletons in the closet" has been chosen as the threesome's campaign slogan. Other top issues central to their campaign will be.

  1. Where’s the $4.5 Million?
  2. Who’s on the golf course?
  3. Why did the Nazi’s tap those nice men on the shoulder and ask them to leave the meeting?
  4. How much pop does the school sell?
  5. If students can breath there’s still more room.
  6. How much duck tape does it take to shut us up.
  7. And finally, two last names is one too many.

The trifecta candidates (as they call themselves ) will rally around the war cry of “Wee Can Doo Better”. What they do better will be determined by the group after swilling down a cold dozen Blogger Lagers.

Points to Ponder: Born Again

"I never could see why people were so happy about Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" because I never had any confidence that Scrooge was going to be different the next day."

Dr. Karl Menninger
A Psychiastrist's World

Pen & Ink Jabs


I Thought Bush's Ancestors Were English?

...in some countries, making up you own laws and spying on citizens was a way of life...and death.

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is democracy, a fascist dictatorship or a parliment or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

Hermann Goering
German Reichs-Marshall

"There are no parlimentary parties in German any longer. How could we have overcome them had we not waged an educational campaign for years that persuaded people of their weaknesses, harms and disadvantages? Their final elimination was only the result of what the people had already realized. Our propaganda weakened their parties. Based on that, they could be eliminated by a legal act.
The positive national discipline of the German press would never have been possible without the complete elimination of the influence of the liberal-Jewish press."

Joseph Goebbels
Hitler's propaganda minister

What Others Say About the Xmas "Debate"

Below is a letter to the editor I recently read that sums that shreads balanced light on the discussion:

“I have been entertained by the arguments, both pro and con, in the Merry Christmas controversy. Personally, I don’t take issue with stores using “Happy Holidays” in their ads. They are selling to everyone, not only those who celebrate Christmas. People who feel victimized by this so-called assault on their beliefs have already lost sight of the true meaning of Christmas anyway. Self-proclaimed “Christian shoppers” who are upset that the commercial giants aren’t respecting the religious nature of the season need to put on their WWJB bracelets and ask themselves “What would Jesus buy?”

David Heath
Letter to the editor
12/17/05 St. Paul Pioneer Press

Columnist Ellen Goodman recently wrote an interesting piece on the topic of Mrrey Christmas V. Happy Holidays that provides historic background from the public and religious perspectives of Christmas:

Read more: Ellen Goodman

Today In Labor History

An explosion in the Darr Mine in Westmoreland Co., Penn. kills 239 coal miners, many of whom were Hungarian. 71 of the dead share a common grave in Olive Branch Cemetary. Dec 1907, was the worst month in US coal mining history, with over 3,000 dead.

Read more: Darr Mine Disaster

26 men and 1 woman are killed in the Wilberg Coal Mine Disaster near Orangeville, Utah. The disaster has been termed the worst coal mine fire in the state’s history.

Read more: Wilberg Mine Disaster


Ignorance Plays A Big Part

The Merry Chri$tma$ V. Happy Holiday$ "Debate"

Fellow Christians I admire most are the ones who show you how to live the Christian life by the example. The ones who confuse me the most are the ones who get in your face and push their version of the Christian life on you by parroting a string of Bible verse quotes they have been spoon-fed. I do not usually question their sincerity, but I often question their depth of study, analysis and motives. In many ways, these are "puppy love" Christians.

What am I suppose to make of a person who has a long history of say drinking or drug use or whatever who suddenly gets “born again” and then goods on their mission to make everybody see the light exactly as they do? If you been around the block enough times, you will know people who have gotten the fever, seen the light and say they will never go back to where they came from. A year later, they are right back where they said they would never return.

I believe these types of “Christian soldiers” tend to be evangelicals and fundamentalists. I also believe these “Christians” are the ones so vocal about the Merry Christmas v. Happy Holidays issue are part of this group. James Dobson's Alliance Defense Fund is running a "Christmas Project" with the motto: "Merry Christmas. It's okay to say it." Jerry Falwell's Liberty Counsel is running a "Friend or Foe Christmas Campaign.” This group has been threatening two public, elementary schools about the song selection in their holiday program. Liberty Counsel does not like the inclusion of a song titled “Cold in The Night” that is set to the tune of “Silent Night.”

“What we are seeing with these two schools is that this holiday is merely a ghost of Christmas past,” said Mat Staver, president of the Falwell endorsed Liberty Counsel, “They’re discriminating based on religious view point. It sends a tremendous disconnect to the young person when you’re familiar with the song ‘Silent Night’ and tune and all of a sudden you learn the same tune with totally secular words.”

The programs at both these schools include “Angels We Have Heard on High” and “Let There Be Peace on Earth.” Of course, the Liberty Counsel’s ignorance on the history of where most of our familiar Christmas carols come from is no surprise to me.

The fact is most of the long-familiar Christmas carols came from Europe and the verses were adapted to familiar folk tunes and melodies. The song “What Child Is This?” is written to the melody of “Green Sleeves.” This is the folk tradition. It is about adaptability and innovation centered on the familiar. Union songs are a big part of this tradition.

Just how much of a traumatic experience it will be for the schoolchildren to learn “Cold In The Night” to the tune of “Silent Night,” only time can tell. My just is it will do little to change the individual outcomes of these children’s lives. However, it does help to provide evidence as to how ignorance of history wastes a great deal of time and resources.

Personally, thinking back to our Christmas programs at St. Pat’s, I will never forget how, in the practice sessions leading up to the program, Sister Vivian kept telling me -- in front of everyone in the class -- to just move my lips and not sing. What songs they were, I can't remember. However, I will give her the credit and blame for buying a guitar and learning how to sing songs in the folk tradition.