tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post115120784421757337..comments2023-10-06T01:45:50.515-07:00Comments on Above The Borderline: Progressive Students Fight For Living Wage on Christian CampusUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151672612639403742006-06-30T06:03:00.000-07:002006-06-30T06:03:00.000-07:00It would be "unlibertarian," if you professed the ...It would be "unlibertarian," if you professed the holistic libertarian list of ideals to be against abortion and gay marriage. Unless you where only selecting from the political, i.e., small government, side of the libertarian menu. Although from a smal government perspective, putting restrictions on the freedom of an individual to choose a domestic partner and participate in all the legally established benefits would seem to fall under the political side of libertarianism. Likewise, on the abortion/pro-choice question, I would think putting legal restrictions on what a personal chooses to do with their own body would also be a gross infringement on the ideals of discussed on the political side of libertarianism.<BR/><BR/>I believe just the title of Milton Friedman's book "Free to Choose" goes along way answering how a full-blooded libertarian would answer these questions.<BR/><BR/>I personally my be opposed to abortion, but I don't feel it is my right to impose my beliefs on another individual's freedom to choose that option.<BR/><BR/>Maybe Cato is really only concerned about the items on the libertarian menu to keep more of his money in his pocket and allow him to carry a gun in the public market place. I've notice numerous instances of this half-breed brand of libertarianism echoed at the ontheborderline.net blog site. Actually, I think arguing this very type of pick-n-choose libertarianism is what got me booted off that site the first time.<BR/><BR/>If Cato is familiar with that blogsite, he would know that our on going discussions over the past couple of weeks would have had the comments shut off long ago. At the OTBL site, when you question the questioners, it gets ugly first and then silent. Obviously, that leads me to believe the purposes of that site is not to educated and enlightened through debate and discussion, but rather to be a propaganda spoke connected to a larger, more centralized hub of indoctrination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151670116657199852006-06-30T05:21:00.000-07:002006-06-30T05:21:00.000-07:00Don't they call this "cut and run"!Don't they call this "cut and run"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151600622243252512006-06-29T10:03:00.000-07:002006-06-29T10:03:00.000-07:00I assume then you are PRO CHOICE and AGAINST the g...I assume then you are PRO CHOICE and AGAINST the gay marriage amendment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151562667536084282006-06-28T23:31:00.000-07:002006-06-28T23:31:00.000-07:00Note on word verification: If you don't use the wo...Note on word verification: If you don't use the word varification option on these blogs, you can get buried in spam advertisement. Concerning the options for indentification posting (blogger, other or anonymous), I don't have a clue as to who you are. The e-mail for your comment post doesn't tell. For all I know, you could be Dr. Bill from the OTBL blog.<BR/><BR/>However, whether the NSA has us monitored, I can't say. I don't mean that I wouldn't say, because I'm sworn to secrecy or something like that. I just mean you know how our government works. (There's an oxymoron).<BR/><BR/>While I'm at it, Cato I have the receipt for libertarian salad -- it's lettuce alone. I stole that "joke" off the internet. Whatever...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151560720579272412006-06-28T22:58:00.000-07:002006-06-28T22:58:00.000-07:00The word verification is there for everyone. Do yo...The word verification is there for everyone. Do you just find it a hassle or do you suspect some other unexplained purpose for it? (this has nothing to do with putting you in the conspiriology camp, I'm just curious and don't know if it could be used for some kind of tracking? ) <BR/><BR/>"How is "Christian libertarian" an oxymoron? It only is if you stipulate Christians want government to do the work of Christ for them. Furthermore, Objectivism =/= libertarianism =/= anarchism."<BR/><BR/>Christians ideally are suppose to follow Jesus's example of selflessness. Libertarians from what I can discern and self centered. A<BR/>pretty self evident contradiction to me!<BR/>You've stated you're not an anarchist,not a libertarian should we try Objectivist on for size?Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151555392343935972006-06-28T21:29:00.000-07:002006-06-28T21:29:00.000-07:00How is "Christian libertarian" an oxymoron? It onl...How is "Christian libertarian" an oxymoron? It only is if you stipulate Christians want government to do the work of Christ for them. Furthermore, Objectivism =/= libertarianism =/= anarchism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151552251174385812006-06-28T20:37:00.000-07:002006-06-28T20:37:00.000-07:00Anon,You say "But remember that the majority of Ch...Anon,<BR/><BR/>You say <BR/>"But remember that the majority of Christians didn't vote for Bush." <BR/>What are you basing that on? Most of the conservative Christians I've talked to have bought into the Bush/Republican package. Do you know of stats that say otherwise? I'd sure like to see that. When I scanned into Christian Radio during the election it could easily be mistaken for a Bush Campaign ad.<BR/><BR/>A quick search on the topic revealed this interesting fact about Focus On The Family sending out Michael Moore's home address their mailing list.<BR/>http://ichikawa.blogspot.com<BR/>/2004/07/fotf-michael-moore-follow-up.html<BR/><BR/>And another article of interest to Bush voting Christians.<BR/>http://www.newswithviews.com/Mary/starrett57.htm<BR/><BR/><BR/>And to answer you're question, I'll to do what I've accused CATO of, taking answers from a playbook.<BR/><BR/>Mark 12:29-31<BR/><BR/>Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these."Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151546648152970322006-06-28T19:04:00.000-07:002006-06-28T19:04:00.000-07:00I agree with you. I believe that some Christians ...I agree with you. I believe that some Christians have been duped. But remember that the majority of Christians didn't vote for Bush. I, by the way consider myself an Evangelical Christain. I've said it before, "what are the two greatest commandments?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151543127107298532006-06-28T18:05:00.000-07:002006-06-28T18:05:00.000-07:00Annonymous.You have pointed out something that has...Annonymous.<BR/><BR/>You have pointed out something that has baffled and irritated me since Bush and the Republicans came to power on the backs of the "Values voters". Isn't evident to you that conservative Christians have made a pact with the Devil by embracing the Republican Party. Value <BR/>voters are mere pawns in their scheme to consolidate economic power. They don't give a rip about your values. They only bring up the issues that conservative Christians are concerned with when there's an election around the corner. Couple that with their Faux Patriotism, hightened terror alert fear mongering and they've congered up a potion that has brought them electoral success for several cycles now. <BR/>The Bush appointed head of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Christopher Cox,is more of a disciple of Ayn Rand than Jesus Christ, and embrasses the <BR/>values you've heard CATO expound upon more than the gospel. They don't care about "the least of my brothers" They care about me, myself and I. The Holy Trinity of Objectivist Ayn Rand Disciples. Here's what someone consolidated about what Christians should believe about the poor.<BR/>http://www.justpeace.org/whatGodsays.htm<BR/>So why are Christians allied with Objectivists, who beliefs are reflected so eloquently by people like CATO in the following statement?<BR/>"I still have yet to have a reasonable explination as to why I should give a damn about anyone else.There is no reasonable explination. It all comes down to emotions, not pragmatism."<BR/><BR/>Recently I've seen bloggers identify themselves as "Christian Libertarians". What an onymoron.Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151537548723717072006-06-28T16:32:00.000-07:002006-06-28T16:32:00.000-07:00You used the word Christian. Unfortunately my ass...You used the word Christian. Unfortunately my assessment was correct, as your views are not in line with that of Christ. However, if you wish to delve into facts. I'd suggest looking into Christianity. It has historical, arceological, and witness substantiation. Actually, when looking into ancient history, Christ's existence is documented more than any other, including two other major religions.<BR/>Checking into Christ may change your views on life. A book that I'd recommend is "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151523550184655502006-06-28T12:39:00.000-07:002006-06-28T12:39:00.000-07:00From what I've been following of the comments of C...From what I've been following of the comments of Cato on this blog, I have not seen any place where he cliamed to be a Christian. Likewise, I don't believe I have ever stated that I was a Christian.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I don't believe Cato has said he was an atheist either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151522811468963962006-06-28T12:26:00.000-07:002006-06-28T12:26:00.000-07:00I never said I was a Christian. In fact I thought ...I never said I was a Christian. In fact I thought I have made myself quite clear on that issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151513435702456402006-06-28T09:50:00.000-07:002006-06-28T09:50:00.000-07:00Ultimately all people rely on others, along with a...Ultimately all people rely on others, along with a social infrastructure. To presume a utopian society would exist in an (or perhaps more appropriatley termed narcissistic) environment like "cato" is a proponent,would never work. We are part of a social species that relies on each other to coexist.<BR/>Cato; you were referring to Christian principles, yet I don't identify anything that you have said that meets that criteria. What you seem to be aligned with, fits more into "gnostic beliefs.<BR/>One user on "the other blog" identified people as "units". That alienation of people reflects a lack of compassion, similar to what you have said. How does that fit with Christian beliefs? Ultimately; even you will need help from others, some of it via "THE SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT" .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151424616241232142006-06-27T09:10:00.000-07:002006-06-27T09:10:00.000-07:00Well I do not ask any man to live for my life. I j...Well I do not ask any man to live for my life. I just expect the same from them. <BR/><BR/>I hope that one day all the interstates will be private. I never have said that local roads should be. I favor a heavily libertarian national government (aka, one that follows the Constitution) while the state level I can understand more pragmatic concerns. For example, at a state level, I would favor the vermont model of public schools that has been working for a century and a half (vouchers! ARRRRGGGGGGGGGG Howard Dean never mentioned <I>that!!!!</I>), while at a national level there should be no public education monies spent what so ever. Unfourtently, with out socialist President and his yes-men in the Congress, the education system is even more entrenched in out national government with a "conservative" President than before he took office.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151423821347770742006-06-27T08:57:00.000-07:002006-06-27T08:57:00.000-07:00Gee Cato, you don't accept any form of welfare or ...Gee Cato, you don't accept any form of welfare or ride transportation and neither do I. Does that make me a libertarian.<BR/><BR/>It's that you only personal contribution to speading the libertarian gospel? I've never received or accepted any welfare in my life, but I have used public transportation when it made economic sense. <BR/><BR/>But then again, if you were driving say from Hudson to downtown Minneapolis, using public transportation does conveniently fit into the picture. Do you ignore any deduction on your tax filing? Those are a form of welfare? Don't you drive down public roads to get to work? That's welfare in the form of pavement, public safety (police and stop lights) and public utilities.<BR/><BR/>It's so easy to say you don't use public transportation or receive welfare, when 99 percent of the people that live in Wisconsin and Minnesota also don't get welfare or use public transportation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151417908072419922006-06-27T07:18:00.000-07:002006-06-27T07:18:00.000-07:00No, I do not like being in the catchall "fellow ma...No, I do not like being in the catchall "fellow man," because it is not true.<BR/><BR/>I abstain from public transportation and I argue my opinion every day with people. I also do not recieve any forom of welfare and would refuse it if ever offered. You can choose to believe me or not to I don't really care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151411873106714622006-06-27T05:37:00.000-07:002006-06-27T05:37:00.000-07:00Cato:In the course of a given day, what transactio...Cato:<BR/><BR/>In the course of a given day, what transactions in life do you abstain from partaking in because they are a violation of you liberatarian ideals? Likewise, what do you do on a daily basis the enhances your libertarians believes and is an example to you fellow man that will spread the ideals you profess -- and they are ideals.<BR/><BR/>Strictly speaking, I'm not sure if you libertarians appreciate being collectively lumped in the catchall phrase "fellow man." I'm saying that as a generalization and don't mean to insult your ideals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151377039422768862006-06-26T19:57:00.000-07:002006-06-26T19:57:00.000-07:00So you have reached the conclusion that your fello...So you have reached the conclusion that your fellow man is lazy by viewing people who post on a blog fairly regualarly.<BR/><BR/>That said I really don't know what you are talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151359879759736562006-06-26T15:11:00.000-07:002006-06-26T15:11:00.000-07:00Watch out below: Personal Attack coming!All I have...Watch out below: Personal Attack coming!<BR/><BR/>All I have to do is browse over to OTBL and I get all the justification I need for my view of my "fellow" man.(doesn't that imply having some type of community?) Especially that new blogmate Jack.<BR/>Now that you've achieved perfection through your brainiac rationality, you just have to clease the earth of the social ballast and all will be swell.<BR/>This kind on thinking isn't much different from Lenin's. Just change the variable to bourgeoisie.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, my fellow man's worth is not measured solely by ability as you imply.Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151358778188130892006-06-26T14:52:00.000-07:002006-06-26T14:52:00.000-07:00So you have a rather low opinion of your fellow ma...So you have a rather low opinion of your fellow man. I believe in them more, that they can survive without my help. And I can survive without anyone elses. But as it stands, there is a segment of the population that your namesake refered to as the social ballast.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151357428373363402006-06-26T14:30:00.000-07:002006-06-26T14:30:00.000-07:00"I know why you made your name andy; I am not dens..."I know why you made your name andy; I am not dense."<BR/><BR/>I like to make myself perfectly clear even at the risk of stating the obvious. <BR/><BR/>In my view people are lazy. They may intend to help others but they don't follow through. They are also well intentioned. It is more pragmatic for the majority to "consent" to help others through taxes. Since you are still in the minority ( and from my view hopefully that will never change ) we collectively ( yes I know you detest that term )help people in a more pragmatic way.<BR/><BR/>I know you don't agree with a lick of this so I'm not sure why I bother stating it.Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151356538876041602006-06-26T14:15:00.000-07:002006-06-26T14:15:00.000-07:00I know why you made your name andy; I am not dense...I know why you made your name andy; I am not dense.<BR/><BR/>No one should be forced to help you, even over threat of eternal damnation, gnawed in the innermost circle of Hell by Satan himself, nor by a gun to your head. You can help people sure. But don't make others people help people. It's their choice, not yours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151355517469166972006-06-26T13:58:00.000-07:002006-06-26T13:58:00.000-07:00So if you become poor through no fault of your own...So if you become poor through no fault of your own ( which I'm sure you will argue is not possible ) no one should help you? (especially not the government). A self made (or self destructive) being, no if's ands of buts.<BR/><BR/>My surname is for purposes of belittling only. I'm not fond of Auntie Ayn.Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151355005781265112006-06-26T13:50:00.000-07:002006-06-26T13:50:00.000-07:00I think it is pretty obvious how similar they are....I think it is pretty obvious how similar they are. Christianity, after all, has an escatological <I>socialist</I> vision for man, although with one distinction: it is of free will not of coersion by force. In otrher words, the Pope will never take my guest house and give it to Hurricane victims, even though they may ask, while the ATF did take it away.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I am not the first to make this connection. Your namesake, for example, spoke of the mytics of spirit and the mystics of muscle as two sides of the same coin. Both want to make the world a "better place." Their visions are eeirly parallel. Just a few differences over <I>why</I> people should do things like, help the poor but they are basically the same thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13208607.post-1151354107104719032006-06-26T13:35:00.000-07:002006-06-26T13:35:00.000-07:00"Well so-called social "conservatives" and sociali..."Well so-called social "conservatives" and socialists are not really all that different. They have slightly different visions but use the same means to ends."<BR/><BR/>You've got to be the first (and only) person I've ever heard lump these 2 together. <BR/>I have to say that your thinking is anathema to me. I keep thinking there's hope for some common ground but frankly I see none. I'm not saying this out of any personal distain, just my observation.<BR/>These world views will just have to battle it out in the idea market.<BR/>If you think that the "rising tide raises all boat". I hope you're up in the crows nest, because below that things are sinking fast.<BR/><BR/>A wise move to not take that bet. <BR/>No skill involved in that one. I think my winning would be a sure thing.Andy Randhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05322038978217816765noreply@blogger.com